The Abdominal Training Secrets Interview
With Tom Venuto, NSCA-CPT, CSCS
www.BurnTheFat.com
And David Grisaffi, CHEK, CFT, PN
www.FlattenYourAbs.net
TV: Hi David, thanks for taking the time for this
interview because I know how busy you are and that, among other
projects, you run a training studio in Tacoma, you’re a
wrestling coach and you keep a full client load. I’ve known
you for a couple years now through the Internet and the emails
we’ve sent to each other and you’re very well known
within the fitness industry - especially in the sports training
field. But on the off chance that some of the people listening to
this interview don’t know who you are, would you give us a
quick introduction and tell us little bit about your background,
how you got started in this field and how you spend your time
now?
DG: Well I was always a sports enthusiast my entire
life. I can remember I was the only 9-year-old watching Monday
night football and taking stats. I did all the usual sports -
football, soccer, wrestling, swimming, baseball and tennis. Never
did much with basketball. Being a genetically "blessed"
Italian, I didn't think the height requirement was going to
be on my side. I excelled at wrestling. That sport alone taught
me about nutrition, supplements, work ethic etc. I really have to
thank wrestling for getting me into this field. I now coach high
school wrestling, baseball and youth football. I keep really busy
with my 3 children, Addision (13) Garrison (10) and my little man
Carson (7). I taught school for a couple of years and then
decided to go into personal training.
TV: You have quite a few certifications, one of them is
certified personal trainer, one is certified golf trainer –
or “golf “biomechanic” to be exact - but what
is a “Corrective High Performance Exercise
Kinesiologist?
DG: That’s an intense certification program
where you learn from one of the foremost experts in the
conditioning field, Paul Chek, who personally developed and
cultivated the program. The certification revolves around the
dynamics of kinesiology, physiology, functional anatomy and mind
– body - spirit relationships. The program has four levels
and I’m currently a level II, where we learn physical
assessment, posture analysis, gait analysis, primal movement
patterns, length-tension testing and range of motion testing. My
Golf biomechanic certification is also from the CHEK institute.
This is where we learn how the relationship between muscles and
muscle groups affect the golf swing and how to improve it. In the
winter of 2002 I also became one of the first Nutrition and
Lifestyle Coaches from the CHEK institute. This program was
developed to help practitioners deal with nutritional and
lifestyle needs of their clients. The certification teaches how
symptoms of disease and stress can be prevented through diet,
exercise and stress management. I’m currently a level II
Nutrition and lifestyle coach.I can‘t say enough about how
Paul has helped me become a better trainer and person. There is
more to this than just exercise.
TV: And I understand that there’s only a small
handful of people who have those credentials, is that right?
DG: Yes, I think, at last count about 1000 have
received a CHEK certification but there are only about 35 in the
world with all three certifications including the level
two’s. So it all costs time, energy and brain work Tom, but
for someone who wants something different and out of the box
thinking, it’s great. Not to take away from any other
certification programs; heck, I love the ISSA, Ian King, Charles
Poliquin and many others…
TV: That’s impressive, congratulations. So if I
understand your philosophy correctly, the big difference between
you and other trainers and especially trainers who only do
bodybuilding and nothing else, is that you help your clients not
only look good, but also with functionality, performance and
correcting existing injuries or potential problem areas or
imbalances that could lead to injuries in the future. Did I miss
anything or would you say that’s a pretty good
description?
DG: That’s right…you have to evaluate
your client thoroughly for strengths and weaknesses to get the
best results. Sometimes without a good evaluation you can miss
something that could help prevent or fix an injury or cause
someone not to excel.
TV:I think it’s really important what you’re
teaching people because as a bodybuilder myself, when I first
started many years ago, the ONLY thing I cared about was looking
good and having muscles and abs and low body fat, but true
fitness is a lot more than just looking good. For one thing
it’s health above all else. In addition to that, if you
don’t have strong, flexible and balanced development, then
sooner or later, you’re going to get injured or
you’re going to find that you can’t enjoy the sports
or recreation activities you want to, and ultimately you might
even find yourself restricted from normal daily activities like
squatting, bending and lifting things around the house, which is
exactly what happens to most people when then get older. But
still, the fact is, everyone wants to look good, they want the
six pack; they want muscle definition. So how do you balance the
form aspect – the looking good part – with the
function aspect – which is the strength, flexibility,
balance and performance part?
DG: I believe we develop from the inside out. If you
have good insides, you will have a good outside. What I mean is
that diet, nutrition and water intake have a great deal to do
with how good you look on the outside. So to look good - the
“form” part - I start with overseeing my
client’s dietary intake. I don’t go as far as telling
them exactly what to eat, but I give a lot of suggestions. As for
the “function”, I always think of the body as a
whole, not as parts. Yes, if you’re a bodybuilder and that
is your gig, then heck yes, think in parts. This really depends
on the client and their goals, but you always need proper
flexibility, strength and balance in the whole body as a
unit.
TV: You train regular people and you also train
professional athletes, especially boxers and golfers. Is there a
big difference in how athletes and regular people should
train?
DG: Each of them has distinct differences. So to
plop down a “canned program” for everyone would lead
to failure and would reflect poorly on me. I take each client one
at a time. In my Flatten Your Abs e-book, I provide many
different levels so each individual can pick the level that fits
them best when they start out. Everyone is not equal. The boxers
in general, are more athletic, so one big difference is that I
change their program more often to keep them fresh. Let’s
say I have 6 weeks before a tough fight, I may change the workout
3 - 4 times. Their nervous systems are highly adaptable and need
the change. Someone who just wants to start a basic
weight-training program could stay on the same program for the
entire 6 weeks and get results. This is because their nervous
systems are not as highly developed.
TV: Lets talk about six pack abs and flat stomachs, because
that’s another one of your specialty areas and that’s
what I really wanted to focus on in this interview the most. You
wrote a course on abdominal training- it’s called
FIRM AND
FLATTEN YOUR ABS and you’re now offering it as an
e-book download on the Internet and it’s starting to get
really popular. What made you decide to write a book about
abdominal training when there’s already so much information
out there?
DG: Hmmm.…to be honest it was my friend Don
Lemmon. He invited me to write a chapter about core conditioning
in his book, and I said “sure”. One thing lead to
another and that one chapter developed into an entire e-book of
my own. I had never done an entire book before with editing,
pictures and so on, but I just took a lot of the information I
had learned from experience and from all my mentors, put my head
down, went to work and wrote the FIRM AND FLATTEN YOUR
ABS e Book. It took me about 3 months. I guess one of my
main motivations for writing it was because there is so much bad
information and so many bad abdominal machines and devices out
there…
TV: I noticed you don’t recommend ANY sit ups in your
course. Why is that?
That’s correct. After studying many greats
like Vladimir Janda, Diane Lee, Paul Chek, Richardson and Jull, I
discovered that the hip flexors (illiopsoas) are frequently
overworked and that can lead to muscle imbalances and low back
pain. So I said, why continue aggravating the problem with sit
ups? In my e book this is a topic I cover in detail.
TV: So why are sit ups still so popular and why are they
still used as a standard exercise in fitness testing and for
sports or military conditioning? Is there ever any reason that
anyone would want to do sit ups or in your opinion is that an
exercise you should NEVER do?
DG: People are hard to change, Tom. But once you
learn what can happen from overusing exercises like sit ups,
you’d be doing yourself (and trainers their clients) a
disservice by continuing this practice. Many studies have also
shown the hip flexors are recruited to do most of the work, so
sit ups are not only ineffective but they can also strain your
back. Now to be fair, there are correct ways to do a sit up. One
is to take the Law of Reciprocal Inhibition into account. That
means if one muscle is working, the other must relax. So if
you’re doing sit ups, you contract your hamstrings and
glutes by pushing your lower legs against someone’s hands,
small dumbbells or over a heavy weighted barbell. This will shut
off the illiopsoas and your abs will feel it in the morning
because they are now doing more of the work.If I prescribe sit
ups, I simply have my clients do Janda sit ups. For the e book, I
left out sit ups completely because of the overuse and injury
potential situation.
TV: Are there any other ab exercises that are really common
in the gym but you wouldn’t recommend to your clients?
DG: Unfortunately, many of the abdominal exercise
gadgets on the market are ineffective and sometimes even unsafe.
I would stay away from the Ab Roller or Torso Track because these
machines can create muscle imbalances. I'm also not a fan of
machine crunches because these machines - like all machines -
stabilize your body and isolate the rectus abdominis, which
doesn't allow for true functional movement. Let's see,
what else? Russian twists on a roman chair with a plate sound
like a good way to ruin your lumbar spine. Torso twists on a
machine fall in that category too.
TV: Yeah, those rotary torso machines are always being used
in every gym I’ve ever been in. What about the ab machines
you see on TV – ANY of them any good?
DG: The infomercial ads on TV try to make the
machines and devices seem new, fun and easy. Everyone wants nice
abs fast and easy. But nice abs do not come in a machine! The
first step is a not a machine, it’s a proper diet based on
the individual. I would say your E book Burn the Fat, Feed
the Muscle is one of the best on the shelves these days
when it comes to nutrition and the motivational techniques to
stay on the plan.
TV: So what’s probably on everyone’s mind now
is that if sit ups and most machines are out, that must leave
crunches as the exercise of choice right?
DG: Yes and No - crunches have become more popular
because of the popularity of ab rollers and crunch machines. But
like sit ups, crunches are overused and misused - frequently!
Floor crunches also limit your range of motion compared to using
a Swiss ball.
TV: A lot of people wonder about those giant exercise balls
– You call them Swiss balls, some people call them
stability balls - I noticed you included quite a few ball
exercises in your course. What’s so great about those
things?
DG: Simple…it places more demand on the
neurological system and that makes the abdominal workout more
effective. According to some studies, the recruitment of the
abdominals was almost double when the subjects used the Swiss
ball. The oblique’s contribution was increased by over 4
times due to the Swiss ball. You also get an extra 15 degrees
range of motion doing crunches on a Swiss ball compared to floor
crunches. Plus, have you ever done an advanced exercise on a
Swiss ball? You sweat more and breathe more heavily. Why, because
your nervous system and entire body are working harder to do all
the stabilizing work. For example, the Prone Bridge exercise
forces the rest of your body to stabilize you so you don’t
fall off the ball. Think of it as a light switch turning on.
TV: So using a Swiss ball “flips the switch on your
nervous system,” I’ve never heard anyone put it that
way before… Interesting. So what are a few of your personal
favorite exercises for developing a good-looking and strong set
of six pack abs?
Well, my system starts with good neurological
programming of the core muscles. Build the base and then add
layers. Some of the exercises I personally like are:
* Prone Ball Roll
* Lateral Ball Roll
* Prone Jackknife on swiss ball
* Swiss ball Side Flexion
* Forward Ball Roll
It’s easier to see them than to try and describe them, so
if you want a visual, you can see the pictures here On This Web
Page. You can also see a total of 42 exercises including
about a dozen ball exercises in my e-book, Flatten Your
Abs and that includes multiple photos of each movement
showing start and finish positions.
TV: Alright, next subject: what’s the deal on
training abs every day – you hear different opinions on
this all the time - are you supposed to work them daily or not?
And why?
DG: There are different opinions on this.
Personally, I think they should NOT be trained each day. There
are situations where you could train muscle groups on consecutive
days, like when you work different sections of the abs. I stand
by the philosophy of lower abs first, obliques and then the
rectus abdominus. Why? Each takes a different degree of
neurological programming. But in general, I follow a less is
more philosophy for abs. I don’t want people getting
over trained and injured. A good diet combined with an effective
exercise program designed for the individual is the key for fat
loss. Add in a good core exercise program such as Firm and
Flatten Your Abs and you have the recipe for success.
TV: Okay, here’s another burning question
that’s on everyone’s mind: A lot of people do
abdominal exercises every day because they think that will burn
the fat of the stomach. You and I know that doesn’t work.
For the record, would you explain exactly why ab exercises
don’t burn fat off your abs?
DG: For one thing, fat is stored all over your body
and the distribution of fat stores is mainly genetic. Men tend to
store body fat in their mid section first. Women have a hard time
losing the hip and leg weight because of child-bearing genetic
code. Second, and most important, abdominals come from low body
fat and low body fat comes from good nutrition, not specific
exercises. I really believe that you are what you eat. If you are
"dirty" on the inside, you will be “dirty”
on the outside.
TV: Ok, let’s talk about core training now. A lot of
people have heard of core training because it has now filtered
into the mainstream, with best selling books, videos and exercise
classes at health clubs and so on, but for the people who still
don’t know what core training is could you give a simple
explanation?
DG: Training the core is a very important issue for
all people of all ages. There are two different muscular systems
at work when dealing with core conditioning. They are referred to
as the inner unit, which consists of the transverse abdominis,
diaphragm, multifidus and pelvic floor these are deep abdominal
muscles and are important to core stability and function. Then
there are the outer unit muscles, which are all the prime movers
of our skeleton system. You must get the inner unit working well
before you embark on a hard core conditioning program.When
conditioning your core, think of yourself as a big top spinning
with everything emanating from the middle (core) out. If you
wobble in the middle, you will, in theory, become off balance and
fall over faster. This sets yourself up for decreased performance
and increased injury potential. Show me a weak core and I will
show you many orthopedic injuries. Remember, getting injured
should never be part of an exercise program. To prevent injury,
develop a base and concentrate on building a functional inner
unit. Protecting the spine is high on the hierarchy of survival.
To protect the spine and its important function, we must
understand what makes the inner and outer unit muscles work.
Working the inner unit muscles simply leads to better core
control.Your ability to respond to situations in everyday life
from bending down to get your keys you dropped on the ground to
putting your baby in his or her crib will be greatly enhanced
when you have trained this system correctly. An important point
I’d like to make is that most people do not get a good
evaluation before starting a core training program. People just
jump right into a core conditioning class or advanced movements
they see in a magazine and this leads to many orthopedic
injuries. I’m not saying they need a PhD in functional
anatomy, but they should know what type, how much and how long
they should do each and every exercise.
TV: You talk about functional training and functional
movement in your program – what’s that all about?
DG: Functional training is popular today as it well
should be. It really revolves around integrated,
multi-dimensional movements that sometimes change speed in all
planes of motion. I don’t want to get into a deep
discussion about exercise kinesiology or biomechanics, so just
think of everyday life: How many leg extensions or leg curls do
you perform in everyday life as compared to squats? Squatting
down is a natural, everyday movement. In other words, it’s
“functional.” I strongly suggest avoiding the overuse
of machines and starting to design your training in a functional
manner.
TV: You also mention the word
“integration” frequently through out your book, what
do you mean by that?
DG: This is connected to the functional training I
was just talking about. Like I said before, it means we do not
condition or train by isolating muscles. We bring together all
the muscles of the body to work as a unit – that’s
integration. Try to do a bicep curl on a machine, then do a curl
with a single heavy dumbbell. You will notice right away that
your entire body must stabilize and work together for you to curl
that dumbbell.There are times you have to break this law, such as
after knee surgery when you will not squat until you’ve
done some leg extensions with the physical therapist, or in the
case of bodybuilders who intentionally isolate, but those are the
exceptions not the rule.
TV: On your www.flattenyourabs.net
web page, you say that your program will help prevent and even
eliminate back pain. Why do you think so many people have back
pain, what does ab training have to do with it and how does your
course help eliminate back pain or help avoid getting it in the
first place?
DG: Great questions. Most back pain comes from the
inability to stabilize the spine. We are designed to sit upright
and move, not sit all day long. Did you know that sitting acutely
raises pressure between each spinal segment? Each segment has
stabilizer muscles (the multifidus). When we perform our desk job
or sit at computers your stabilizer muscles do not have to work
as hard, so they become weaker. Why would they work when that 300
dollar chair does it for them? Then we think we can go out and
play 18 holes of golf and POW the back goes out! Do this
experiment: Sit on a Swiss ball fitted for your height and you
will notice a big difference in the way you sit at your desk. You
excite those spinal muscles to do their jobs. There are plenty of
exercises to help with this with in the e book. To get relief
from minor back pain or to prevent back pain in general you must
work the entire inner unit and core muscles.
TV: You were talking earlier about developing a base and
adding layers. I know that a lot of people start a strength
training program to look and feel better but their workouts
actually cause injuries and back problems because they use bad
form or they pick exercises that are too advanced for their level
of fitness. In your program, I noticed you have the routines set
up in levels of difficulty – 7 levels actually – and
you talk about the importance of developing the right foundation
with simple conditioning exercises for the first few weeks, then
gradually moving into the more challenging movements. How do you
know where to start and which exercises to choose and which to
avoid so that you don’t hurt yourself by doing something
over your head? I mean, I know you wouldn’t train one of
your overweight clients on their first workout the same way you
train your pro boxers, right?
DG: There are some simple abdominal tests in the
eBook that will give every person a baseline to start. For as
long as I’ve been doing this I have found very few people
– even good athletes - that pass the tests the first time.
Each person should start at the beginning. The question is how
long do you stay at each level. An athlete will advance faster
due to a better integrated nervous system. But everyone should
start off slow!
TV: David, if there’s so much misleading and false
information on abdominal machines and fat reduction on TV and in
the magazines these days, how do they keep getting away with it
and why don’t more people know about the techniques you
teach?
DG: Some people do know about the types of training
I use, just not the mainstream yet. Also many of the ads for ab
training call for minimum work. …Flat abs in 3 minutes a
day is quite appealing to most couch potatoes, so they keep
buying it.
TV: I agree totally. I saw that they have “six second
abs” now and people are actually buying this stuff. Ok, one
last question. I know your eBook has dozens of ab training and
fat loss tips, and you’ll probably say, “Just buy the
book,” but would you indulge us and tell us three of your
most important secrets for getting firm and flat abdominals?
DG: Sure… ONE, Get a proper evaluation. I
would suggest looking up a CHEK practitioner in your area. There
are many things that can help you with rock hard abs. But without
knowing your metabolic type, stress levels, food intolerance,
eating proper organic foods to avoid pesticides, chemicals and so
on, you could go round and round and never get those abs. In
other words, fix your insides so you outsides look great! TWO, do
not stop learning - continue educating yourself. Most plans are
doomed from the start because people tend to want the quick fix
so they fall for gimmicks that with a little education they would
know better.THREE, follow the exercises with proper form. Do not
just go through the motions to get the reps done.
TV: This has been great David, definitely very enlightening
and again, I really appreciate your time, thank you. If someone
wants to contact you or if someone wants to order a copy of your
e-book where can they find it?
DG: Well Tom, thank you and thanks for your great
web sites and information. You’re a great person to work
with and I salute your commitment to natural fitness and health.
I can be reached at my website and you can also get the full
information about the FIRM AND FLATTEN YOUR ABS program there as
well. The site URL is www.flattenyourabs.net
TV: Thanks again David, It’s been a
pleasure.
Click here to visit David
Grisaffi’s Flatten Your Abs Website
About the Authors:
 Tom Venuto is a lifetime natural bodybuilder, an
NSCA-certified personal trainer (CPT) and a certified strength
& conditioning specialist (CSCS). Tom is the author of the #1
best-selling e-book, "Burn the Fat, Feed The
Muscle,” which teaches you how to get lean without
drugs or supplements using the secrets of the world's best
bodybuilders and fitness models. Learn how to get rid of stubborn
body fat and increase your metabolism by visiting: www.burnthefat.com.
 David Grisaffi majored in physical education and
holds multiple certifications including 3 from the prestigious
CHEK Institute: Level II high Performance Exercise Kinesiologist,
Golf Biomechanic, and health and lifestyle counselor. He's
also certified by the ISSA as a personal trainer and specialist
in performance nutrition. David has been a high school wrestling
and baseball coach and is currently an independent trainer and
strength coach. He has been sought after by some of the top
athletes in professional sports including world champion boxer
Greg Haugen and professional golfer Michael Putnam. David’s
ebook, Firm And Flatten Your
Abs is an online best seller which teaches you how
develop “six pack abs" while improving strength,
function and athletic power at the same time. Find out more at
www.FlattenYourAbs.net
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